Nick Leffel

In Conversation With Diana Soukup

On Festivals,

Experimental Art,

and The Privilege of Filmmaking.

The Black Harvest Film Festival

November 8 - 21 2024.

@BlackHarvestFilmFestival

View Nick’s Entire Shoot Below.

Full Gallery.

SuperDime

In Conversation With Evan Sellas

Follow Superdime on Instagram @superdimeofficial

Stream their new EP “Spinner”

Spotify & Apple Music

Evan: All right, this is just maybe a conversation.

I had a lot of fun honestly looking into you guys.

I did not know of SuperDime before.

I’ve had "Big Tooth" stuck in my head for the past three days.

It’s awesome.

So yeah, let’s start with basic introductions.

Nolan: I’m Nolan Manke. I play guitar and sing.

I’m from Naperville, still in Naperville,

and I’m just working right now.

Maggie: I’m Maggie Smith. I play lead guitar.

I graduated from DePaul in film but didn’t go into it.

I’m also from Naperville but live in Chicago.

Jeremy: I’m Jeremy Donofrio.

I’m 20 and a junior at Columbia.

I’m also from Naperville.

Jack: I’m Jack Mitchell.

I’m 20 and studying Health Sciences

and Neuroscience at DePaul.

I play drums.

Evan: So tell me about Spinner and the process behind it.

How did you guys come up with it?

Jack: The energy on Spinner was a big focus for us.

The EP has this constant momentum,

like Maggie described it as a horse out of control.

Even when the songs slow down, you can feel everything pushing forward.

That influences how I drum too—I love playing with a lot of energy,

so I break a lot of drumsticks during shows.

It’s worth it, though, because it fits the feel of the EP.

Maggie: Yeah, that chaotic but controlled energy was a

key part of the process. The horse imagery on the cover

fits perfectly because the EP is all about that

sense of movement and momentum.

I think a lot of our writing comes from this urge to push forward,

even when it feels overwhelming.

Nolan: "PCP Dirt Bike" came together unexpectedly.

I was just fiddling with my guitar while we were waiting

to record demos for other songs.

I didn’t plan to write it, but it felt right, so we just went with it.

Moments like that really shaped Spinner.

It’s a lot of spontaneous ideas that clicked into place.

Maggie: Exactly. The spontaneity in the studio was

a big part of our process. There were moments where

one of us would play something out of nowhere,

and we’d all jump in and build off of that.

That’s how a lot of Spinner came together.

Evan: You’ve mentioned your first few gigs a lot.

Can you tell me how your early experiences shaped this EP?

Maggie: Our first gig was at Book Club in 2022.

We didn’t have any music out yet,

but we already felt like we had something special.

We had good turnout, and the energy was just there.

That made us realize we had to keep going.

Every gig after that gave us more confidence.

Jeremy: Yeah, that first show hit capacity in 10 minutes.

It was wild. Even though we were still figuring things out,

we could tell the audience was connecting with us.

Nolan: Our early shows were like a testing ground.

We played some of the Spinner songs live

before we recorded them, and we used those performances to

gauge what worked and what didn’t.

Seeing how the audience reacted helped shape the final versions of the songs.

Jack: For me, I use the audience reaction to adjust my drumming.

If I see people stop moving, I know something’s not working.

That feedback loop has been a big part

of our live performances and studio work.

That’s how a lot of Spinner came together—

it’s about creating that live energy in the recordings.

Evan: What was it like recording Spinner?

How did the studio environment affect the EP?

Nolan: We recorded the entire EP in Maggie’s basement.

It was a DIY setup with borrowed gear and some makeshift soundproofing.

It was definitely challenging, but it added this raw,

authentic feeling to the record.

Maggie: Yeah, we didn’t have a professional studio,

so we had to get creative.

We put comforters on the ceiling to dampen sound

and used duct tape to hold everything together.

It wasn’t ideal, but it worked for us.

That’s part of what made Spinner feel so personal.

Jeremy: It was a learning process.

None of us had engineered a full EP before,

so there were a lot of mistakes along the way, but we figured it out.

The result feels very "us" because we were involved in every part of it.

Jack: The DIY setup made us work together even more closely.

We were constantly problem-solving,

and I think that bond shows in the music.

Spinner is the result of that teamwork.

Evan: How important was it to maintain that raw, live sound on Spinner?

Nolan: It was crucial. We wanted to capture the

energy of our live performances, and that meant keeping things

a bit rough around the edges.

We didn’t want it to sound too polished.

The DIY recording process helped with that because

we couldn’t smooth everything out even if we wanted to.

Maggie: The imperfections are part of the sound.

We could have re-recorded certain parts,

but we chose to leave them in because they felt real.

That’s a big part of what makes Spinner special—

it’s an honest reflection of where we were as a band at that time.

Jeremy: We also tried to make sure the recording

process didn’t take away from the spontaneity of our songwriting.

A lot of the best moments on the EP happened

when we just went with the flow in the studio,

and we didn’t want to lose that energy by over-editing.

Evan: So looking back, how do you feel about Spinner now that it’s out there?

Jack: I’m really proud of it.

It’s a snapshot of where we were at that time,

and it captures everything we wanted it to—energy,

spontaneity, and that live show feel.

Nolan: Same. I feel like Spinner represents

who we are as a band right now.

It’s raw and imperfect, but it’s real.

I think our fans appreciate that honesty.

Maggie: I agree. It was a stressful process, but it was worth it.

We learned so much about ourselves as musicians and as a band.

Spinner is just the beginning, and I’m excited for what comes next.

Evan: So let’s talk about your first EP,

“Do You Remember How We Used to Run?”. I read that that process involved

using borrowed interface, rented microphones,

can you explain that whole process? 

Maggie: I found some random place in Lake Forest

where we rented microphones.

I produced the project but had never engineered before or anything.

I did a lot of research.

Nolan: In some ways, as silly as where the title came from,

it does feel very specific to the raw sound

of that first EP and the vibe of it.

Us finally coming back together and forming a

stronger friendship and being able to reminisce

on growing up together in our formative years.

Evan: I was thinking about the title a lot.

Both the title and the music are very reflective on youth.

A lot of the themes of your first EP reminds me

of the themes of Nolan’s short film

that he did in high school, “Exultation”. 

Nolan: Wow, no way. Yeah, I’m so happy to be talking about this.

Evan: “Exultation” had no formal rules or structure to it,

just a collage of you and your friends over one summer hanging out.

It remind me of my own youth. 

Nolan: Wow, yeah. I’m very much a fan of nostalgia,

and that an idea I had to film my friends for an

entire summer with no script or formality.

I just filmed things as we were doing them randomly

and then put it all together at the end and all

the music from that is scored by songs that I made.

“[It’s]

who we are as a band right now.

It’s raw and imperfect, but it’s real.”

-Nolan Manke, Guitar & Vocals

Evan: So, beyond How We Used to Run and Spinner,

what are some of your musical influences?

Nolan: For me, it’s all over the place.

I love classic rock like The Rolling Stones,

but I also listen to a lot of indie and experimental stuff.

I think you can hear that in the mix on Spinner.

We like to keep things fresh and unpredictable.

Maggie: I’ve always been drawn to punk and grunge—bands like Nirvana,

Sonic Youth, and The Stooges.

That raw energy and emotion are things I try to bring into our music.

Even though our sound has evolved,

those influences are still there.

Jeremy: I’m into a lot of jazz and funk.

I play bass, so naturally,

I look up to guys like Jaco Pastorius and Bootsy Collins.

I like grooves that keep things moving,

and I try to bring that to our music, even if it’s more subtle.

Jack: I’m all about rhythm,

so I listen to everything from hip hop to metal.

Drumming is all about timing and energy,

and I love to explore different beats

and techniques to keep things interesting.

On Spinner, I think you can hear a bit of

everything I’ve been influenced by.

Evan: What’s the songwriting process like for you all?

Do you write together, or is it more of an individual thing?

Maggie: It’s definitely collaborative,

but we each bring different ideas to the table.

Sometimes Nolan or I will have a riff,

and we’ll build around that. Other times,

Jeremy or Jack will start a groove,

and the rest of us will jam until it clicks.

It’s a very organic process.

Nolan: Yeah, there’s no strict formula.

Some songs come together in a couple of days,

and others take weeks or months.

We’re always tweaking things and pushing each other to try new ideas.

That’s how we keep things fresh.

Jack: I feel like we work best when we’re just vibing together.

Some of the best parts of Spinner came from us

just messing around during practice.

When we’re all in sync, that’s when the magic happens.

Jeremy: And it’s always evolving.

We’ve changed a lot as a band,

and I think that shows in our music.

We’re more comfortable with each other now,

and that makes the writing process smoother and more fun.

“We don’t want to get stuck in a formula.

Every project is an opportunity to explore something new.”

-Maggie Smith, Lead Guitar

Evan: So it sounds like your songwriting process is very fluid.

How do you know when a song is finished?

Maggie: Honestly, sometimes we don’t! (laughs)

There are songs on Spinner that could have gone

in different directions if we had more time or resources.

But at some point, you just have to say, “This is it.”

It’s more about capturing the feeling of the moment than perfection.

Nolan: Yeah, I agree. A song is never really finished.

You could keep tweaking it forever,

but we try to keep that live energy in the recordings.

Once we feel like we’ve captured that, we know it’s time to move on.

Jeremy: The energy is what makes it real.

I think that’s why our live shows are so important to us.

It’s where the music really comes to life.

The recordings are just a snapshot of where we were at the time.

Jack: And live shows are where we can experiment.

Sometimes we’ll play a song one way in the studio,

but then we’ll change it up live.

It keeps things interesting for us and the audience.

Evan: Amazing, What’s been the most memorable moment for SuperDime so far?

Maggie: For me, it was the first time we sold out a show.

That was huge. We had been playing small venues,

and suddenly, people were showing up early and packing the place.

It made us realize that we were doing something right.

Nolan: Yeah, that show was a turning point.

We started to see the fanbase growing,

and that gave us more confidence to take risks with our music.

It was like, “Okay, people are into this, so let’s keep pushing ourselves.”

Jeremy: For me, it’s always the moments when I

look out at the crowd and see people singing along to our songs.

That never gets old. It’s wild to think that something we created

in a basement has connected with so many people.

Jack: I think for all of us, it’s about the connection with the fans.

We put everything we have into our music,

and when that energy is reflected back at us during a show,

it’s an incredible feeling. It makes all the hard work worth it.

“There’s a lot more to being in a band than just playing music…”

-Jack Mitchell, Drums

Evan: We’ve spoken about Spinner a lot, but what’s next for SuperDime?

Are you working on new material?

Nolan: Definitely. We’re always writing,

and we’ve got a lot of new material we’re excited about.

I think the next project will be even more experimental than Spinner.

We’re pushing ourselves to try new things and keep evolving as a band.

Maggie: Yeah, we don’t want to get stuck in a formula.

Every project is an opportunity to explore something new.

We’re already working on a few tracks that are

completely different from what we’ve done before.

It’s exciting to see where it goes.

Jeremy: We’re also thinking about how we can bring that

new material to life in our live shows.

We’ve always focused on creating a live experience

that’s high energy and unpredictable,

and we want to keep pushing that.

Jack: The next project will definitely be an evolution of our sound.

We’re always growing and learning as musicians,

and I think our next release will reflect that.

Evan: What advice would you give to up-and-coming

bands who are trying to find their sound?

Nolan: I’d say don’t be afraid to experiment.

It’s easy to get caught up in trying to fit into

a certain genre or sound like other bands,

but the best music comes from taking risks and finding your own voice.

Maggie: I’d add that you have to be willing to fail.

Not every idea is going to work,

but you learn from those mistakes.

The key is to keep pushing forward and not get discouraged.

Jeremy: And stay true to yourself. There’s a lot of pressure to conform,

especially in the music industry,

but the bands that stand out are the ones that are authentic.

Jack: Practice, practice, practice.

There’s no shortcut to becoming a great band.

You have to put in the time,

play as much as you can, and keep honing your craft.

Evan: How has the band evolved since you first started?

Maggie: When we first started, we were all over the place.

We were trying to find our sound and figure out

how we fit together as a group.

Over time, we’ve gotten a lot more comfortable

with each other musically, and I think that shows in the music.

Spinner is a reflection of that growth.

Nolan: Yeah, in the beginning, we were just happy to be playing music.

We weren’t really thinking about the bigger picture.

Now, we’re more focused on where we want to go

as a band and what we want to say with our music.

Jeremy: I think we’ve also learned a lot about how to work together.

In the early days, there were a lot of disagreements about

the direction we should take. But now, we’re more in sync,

and we trust each other’s instincts more.

Jack: We’ve also gotten better at navigating the music industry.

There’s a lot more to being in a band than just playing music,

and we’ve had to learn how to handle the business side of things.

It’s been a steep learning curve, but we’re getting there.

Evan: That amazing. You’ve mentioned the live energy a lot.

How do you keep that energy up?

Maggie: It’s tough, but it’s all about feeding off the crowd.

Every show is different, and the energy from the audience really fuels us.

Even if we’re tired or things aren’t going perfectly,

the crowd gives us that boost we need to keep going.

Nolan: Yeah, some nights are harder than others,

but once you’re on stage, it’s like flipping a switch.

The adrenaline kicks in, and everything else fades away.

You just focus on the music and the crowd,

and that’s what keeps the energy going.

Jeremy: We also try to mix things up every show.

Even if we’re playing the same songs,

we’ll change things up a little to keep it fresh.

That way, we’re not just going through the motions,

and the audience gets something unique every night.

Jack: It’s definitely a challenge, but it’s also part of the fun.

It’s exhausting, but it’s also the best feeling in the

world when you’re on stage and everything’s clicking.

That’s what keeps us going.

Evan: What’s the most challenging part of being in a band?

Maggie: I think the hardest part is balancing everything.

We’re all really passionate about the music,

but we also have other responsibilities—

jobs, school. It’s hard to juggle all of that and still give 100% to the band.

Nolan: Yeah, time management is a big challenge.

There are only so many hours in the day,

and sometimes it feels like there’s never

enough time to get everything done. But we make it

work because we love what we do.

Jeremy: For me, it’s the business side of things.

I love playing music, but dealing with all the logistical

stuff can be really overwhelming. We’re lucky to have a

good support system, but it’s still a lot to handle.

Jack: I’d say the toughest part is staying motivated

when things aren’t going well. There are times when it feels

like we’re not making progress, and it’s easy to get discouraged.

But we’ve learned to push through those moments and keep going.

“[I] want people to feel the energy.

We put a lot of ourselves into our music,

and I hope that comes through…”

-Jeremy Donofrio, Bass

Evan: What’s been the biggest lesson you’ve learned as a band?

Maggie: Patience. Things don’t always happen as

quickly as you want them to, but you have to keep working at

it and trust the process. Success doesn’t happen overnight,

and we’ve learned that it takes time to build something meaningful.

Nolan: I’d say teamwork. Being in a band is like being in a relationship—

it takes communication, compromise, and trust.

We’ve had our ups and downs, but we’ve learned

to work together and support each other.

Evan: Looking back, is there anything you would have done differently?

Maggie: There are definitely things we could have done differently,

but I try not to dwell on that too much.

Every mistake we’ve made has been a learning experience,

and it’s all part of the journey.

If we hadn’t made those mistakes, we wouldn’t be where we are now.

Nolan: Yeah, I think everything happens for a reason.

We’ve had some setbacks, but they’ve only made us stronger.

I don’t think I would change anything, because it’s all led us to this point.

Jeremy: I agree. It’s easy to look back and think

about what could have been,

but I’m proud of what we’ve accomplished.

We’ve worked hard to get here, and I wouldn’t change a thing.

Jack: I wouldn’t do anything differently either.

Every challenge we’ve faced has taught us something,

and it’s made us a better band.

We’ve learned and grown from every experience,

and I think that’s what matters most.

Evan: It sounds like you’re all really in sync when it comes to making music.

Has it always been that way, or did it take time to find that rhythm as a band?

Maggie: It definitely took time. When we first started,

we were all still figuring each other out musically.

Nolan: Yeah, I think we all came into the band with our own

ideas of what we wanted to sound like,

and it took a while for us to figure out how

to blend those influences into something cohesive.

Jack: And I think we’ve gotten a lot better at communicating.

If someone has an idea, we’re all open to hearing it and trying it out.

We don’t take things personally if something doesn’t work.

It’s all about finding the best ideas and building on them.

Evan: Do you feel like your sound has changed since you started,

or do you think you’ve stayed true to the original vision?

Maggie: I think our sound has definitely evolved.

When we first started, we were experimenting a

lot and trying to figure out what worked.

But now we have a much clearer sense of who

we are as a band and what we want to say with our music.

Nolan: Yeah, our sound has definitely grown.

We’ve always been about blending different genres and influences,

but I think we’ve gotten better at making those elements work together.

Jeremy: I think we’ve stayed true to the core of what makes us SuperDime,

but we’ve also allowed ourselves to evolve.

We’re not afraid to take risks and try new things,

but at the end of the day, it’s still us.

Evan: What do you hope people take away from your music?

Is there a message or feeling you’re trying to convey?

Maggie: For me, it’s all about connection.

Music is such a powerful way to connect with people,

and I hope our songs resonate with people on a deeper level.

Nolan: Yeah, I think we all want to make music

that people can relate to.

Our songs are often about personal experiences,

but we try to write them in a way that feels universal.

If someone can listen to one of our songs and

feel like we’re speaking to something

they’ve gone through, that’s the ultimate goal.

Jeremy: I also think we want people to feel the energy.

We put a lot of ourselves into our music,

and I hope that comes through when people listen to it.

Jack: I agree. It’s all about creating a shared experience.

Music has the power to bring people together,

and I think that’s one of the reasons we do this—

to create something that people can connect to and feel a part of.

Evan: So what do you guys think about the stereotype

of musicians have to be experimenting with or using

any subtances for live performances or recording? 

Jack: I think it’s a tired stereotype.

Frank Zappa is arguably one of the most impressive songwriters ever.

The amount of output from him, the creativity,

the boundary pushing, and he didn’t even

want his musicians to smoke and drink.

I think art is good when it comes from what’s within.

And you don’t need substances to channel that.

Jeremy: Yes, Pink Floyd, The Beatles,

all those bands took psychedelics to create some weird,

boundary-pushing stuff, but I would argue

that art was already within them.

Nolan: I feel like the older I get, the more I appreciate

just living in the moment and benign there fully.

It’s just a personal preference, though.

Maggie: We’ve played with bands before

who get blackout drunk before the shows and

just don’t give it their all for their fans at live shows.

We just want to avoid that.

Evan: That’s a really powerful.

So, what’s next for SuperDime?

Where do you see yourselves in the next few years?

Maggie: We’ve got a lot of plans. We’re working on new material,

and thinking about ways to keep pushing ourselves musically.

I think the next few years are going to be really exciting for us as a band.

Nolan: Yeah, we’re not slowing down anytime soon.

We’re always writing, always experimenting,

and always looking for ways to grow.

I think our next project is going to take us in a new direction,

and I’m excited to see where it leads.

Jeremy: I think the key for us is to keep evolving.

We don’t want to get comfortable or stuck in a routine.

We’re always looking for new challenges and ways to push ourselves,

both as musicians and as a band.

Jack: In the next few years, I hope we’re still

making music that excites us and connects with people.

Whether we’re playing small venues or big festivals,

the most important thing is that we’re still creating and sharing our music with the world.

Evan: Do you guys have any last thoughts?

Maggie: We just want to say thank you.

The support we’ve received has been incredible,

and we’re so grateful to everyone who has listened to our music,

come to our shows, and been part of this journey with us.

Nolan:We’re excited for what’s next,

and we can’t wait to share more music with everyone.

Jeremy: I just want to say that we’re really proud of

Spinner and we hope people continue to enjoy it.

We’re working on new music,

and we can’t wait to see where this journey takes us.

Jack: Thank you to everyone who has supported us.

We’re just getting started, and we’re excited for what the future holds.

Evan: Thanks so much for talking with me today.

I’ve really enjoyed getting to know you guys.

Best of luck with everything you’ve got coming up!

Maggie: Thank you! It was great talking with you.

Nolan: Yeah, thanks so much!

Jeremy: Thanks!

Jack: Thanks, Evan. This was fun!

View the Entire Shoot Below.

Full Gallery.

Goldy

In Conversation With Kayla Holliday

Follow Goldy on Instagram @goldy.wav

Stream his new Album “ORO”

Spotify & Apple Music

Kayla: Well, first of all, thank you so much

for agreeing to do this, I wanted to start out by well,

let me just introduce the questions a little bit.

Some of them are going to be a bit abstract and a little bit obscure.

So you might not know exactly what I'm asking,

but I just want you to go off Instinct, like whatever you're feeling. 

GOLDY: Right.

Kayla: Something I was thinking about when you

were taking the photos is. Artists and being able

to listen and appreciate their own work and I was

wondering how it feels to be listening to your own music?

GOLDY: Yeah, it's kind of weird. I don't… It's a good question.

The hardest thing to really do is take yourself out

of it because you know it's you and you know

It's your voice and everything,

and if you listen to other artists,

you don't really think twice about it.

It's just there, so that's why if somebody’s like

playing my music somewhere and no one's really

making a big deal about it, I think that's a good thing.

Because, that's a good sign.

It's  for audio in film, or acting in movies,

if it's good, then people won't know. I think that's cool,

but it's definitely a weird thing sometimes for me.

Because, It was definitely weirder when I first started.

Kayla:  I was going to say how has it shifted?

Do you feel comfortable now? But you used to be more uncomfortable.

GOLDY: Definitely more comfortable now.

In some situations I'm just awkward sometimes,

but I'm fully confident saying that I'd made [the music].

It's not something I want to hide,

you know, so just fun, you know? It's just fun.

Kayla: Do you think that's just through time or what brought you to that today?

GOLDY: I think time and just after you keep

doing something it becomes kind of you…

When I first tried making movies in high school,

people would throw it around the word filmmaker,

and it sounded so weird to associate yourself with a title like that.

And yeah, it felt weird at first, but then you just keep doing it.

And it's like it just becomes you in a way.

“My family played instruments,

my dad was always playing

jazz in the house,

he was a huge fan of jazz.”

Kayla: Do you relate filmmaking to music in a lot of ways,

or do you find it to be very different?

GOLDY: I think all art forms are pretty similar in a lot of ways.

It's just having to do it to get better

at it and just improving upon it and learning.

Kayla: Do you find them to be equal passions,

or do you have a preference for one? 

GOLDY: Right now, I think more about music, because I like acting.

I probably like acting more than directing because

I find directing super stressful.

But I think with music specifically it's something

I can do kind of on my own.

It's less money required, there's less people required.

You know, to get something done musically versus acting and do something,

you gotta audition, etc... I mean, I guess you could,

like, make your own stuff, but it usually takes,

you know, a couple of people to put a project together.

So I think my passion for both is pretty equal,

but music is just more available. I love both though.

Kayla: So then let's go back in time.

How did we come to these passions?

GOLDY: I think being introduced to [music and film] at a young age.

My dad acts and also is a huge fan of music.

My family played instruments,

but my dad was always playing jazz in the house,

he was a huge fan of jazz. He played the clarinet.

his dad played the Clarinet, I did for a little bit.

It's just such a cool concept.

A lot of people around me were invested in music and

it was kind of the time where music became much more

available where it wasn't like you needed CD's for it.

You could play it off your phone, which definitely had an influence.

Kayla: You said your dad listens to a lot of jazz

and plays it as well; Does he write music?

GOLDY: Not that I know of.

I should ask him, but he probably would have brought it up if he did.

But no, I don't think so.

I think my grandfather was definitely more invested in the clarinet

than my dad was because he was in

the marching band at Wisconsin, which is cool story.

Kayla: Do you think you'd bring him on to a song?

GOLDY: Yeah, that'd be awesome!

A Little clarinet sample would be sweet.

He hasn't played in a long time, but that would be a cool feature.

Kayla: Why do you think he stopped playing? 

GOLDY: I don't know. I think he stopped later,

because he was a drum major, it was kind of a cycle.

My grandpa stopped after college.

My dad stopped after high school.

I stopped after junior high, I didn't even go into high school with it.

But yeah, I think he probably stopped

just because he was doing other stuff.

He was just going to college.

He actually didn't even pick up acting until after he graduated,

he got his Masters in theater.

Kayla: And he's still [acting] Today. 

GOLDY: Yeah. Yeah. When he can, he tries to.

He does a lot of voiceover work, and he's had a couple of

DaVinci projects, you know.

Yeah, one maybe… I think technically, two.

He's in Headlight (2022), and then he did some ADR for Provenance.

Kayla: Did he play the dad in Headlight? Wow. Right, right, right.

GOLDY: Yeah, he did. He played Zach's dad.

I was at the table with him. It. Was funny, yeah.

Kayla: Was that the first time you guys had worked together in that way? 

GOLDY: Yeah, I think so. I think so. It was just cool because,

I don't know if we'd ever really had like that plan.

In high school, I just wanted to direct stuff,

so that was the goal, but over COVID I just really

started to like acting more.

I don't know why it's just that I was watching

a ton of movies and I felt [acting] was pretty cool.

Kayla: How do you feel when you're acting?

Like, do you feel different than the way you feel

when you're directing or making music? 

GOLDY: That's a good question. I think that it's different.

I can't describe why it's different. Or how?

But, I think it's just a different feeling…

music's very therapeutic and I can you know…

I'll do something musically and it’ll just help me out if I'm

going through a bad day or something.

I can just make something to make me feel better and

it'll just be a way to vent stuff through music.

But acting more so, it's just cool to like fake stuff…

So that's why I like it.

Kayla: You said that music is therapeutic to you.

So I was wondering, do you think you create

better work when you're going through pain?

GOLDY: I don't think so, which is which is good.

I'm glad that's not the case because I know some people

struggle with that, they need some bad shit to be going on to make stuff.

But honestly, I feel like when I'm going through something You know,

I can't really create. It's almost like when you deal

with something that's upsetting,

it's best to not respond right away because you're

going to say something that you don't mean or

you just need to take some time to reflect.

Yeah, I feel like it's similar to writing,

because an event will happen in my life and it'll take me

like a couple of months, even, years to really be able to analyze it

and know what I want to say.

I feel like music people like to interpret music as the exact truth.

Which is interesting because in movies and acting, people know it's fake.

But in music, you could say things that are inspired by certain other things

that aren't necessarily fully real.

But it’s just like how you felt or it's something that went through your mind.

It's kind of weird how it is, it's just more personal.

Kayla: So would you say you kind of go a bit abstract?

GOLDY: Yeah, I definitely think I need to be at a Peace of Mind,

though to write something, it just helps

to be able to fully reflect on something.

Kayla: Definitely.

When you put out a piece of work do you have to

reach full 100% satisfaction or do you just put it out? 

GOLDY: I don’t think 100%,

because then nothing would ever get put out.

But I think at a point it's like if I don't,

or I'm super hesitant on something I'm probably not gonna run with it.

I think it's better to just feel what you're confident in and release that.

There's a lot of things that I just try to do honestly.

What I really try to do is react,

try to keep in mind how I felt the first time I heard something,

because that's how most people are going to hear it.

It's hard because I like listening to things probably hundreds of times

just to make sure things are right, you know, make sure things sound good

and it just really warps your sense of what's good or not.

Kayla: Yeah, trust that first instinct.

GOLDY: Yeah, trust on that. On that instinct, Exactly.

Kayla: OK. So. You were talking about how a lot of times you

bring your own life events into your music.

So is that what you would say is your primary inspiration

or you know to use the title card? Like do you have a muse?

Is that like a person? Is that a feeling?

GOLDY: Yeah, I think it's about life;

there are just a lot of unique experiences that can happen,

and even the simplest things can contribute to that,

like drinking juice or going to the store.

Little things like that can be made to sound cool

or interesting because they are.

I mean, every little thing you do is significant.

You know, you choose to do it, and that makes it cool.

It definitely took me some time to get there;

it’s not something you can just do right away.

I wasn’t good at writing for a long time; it was hard to do.

But, yeah, it just becomes easier, I guess, once you do more of it and try to improve.

But to come back to the question, I think it’s all about the experiences.

Being out and doing things helps a lot because staying inside

and just trying to think of something isn’t really productive.

I feel like you have to live something to be able to talk about it or express it.

Even if it’s not entirely what happened or what’s true,

it’s still something you can reflect on or how something makes you feel.

Kayla: And is there a way that you decide

whether an idea is going to be best used in your music or in film?

GOLDY: Hmm. Yeah, I definitely think that’s a good question.

Honestly, I’ve been focused on music more lately,

so I feel like most of my thoughts have been geared toward musical stuff.

But even when it comes to [Jacob Frost] shooting videos,

it’s cool to think about the visual aspects and how to

encapsulate something in a visual format that matches it.

Even if it’s not a crazy story, it can still be something small and special.

I think that’s cool too. So, it really just depends.

“I think it’s important to have people who are honest…

I don’t want people to just offer praise.”

Kayla: Who do you trust with your music?

GOLDY: Honestly, I have a group of friends

that I can trust to send my stuff to.

They won’t just say, “Yeah, this is good,” just to boost me up.

I think it’s important to have people who are honest, which is good.

I don’t want people to just offer praise.

I also trust strangers a lot because I think having

no personal connection really shows you what’s up.

If someone I’ve never talked to before, who may or may not be a fan,

likes a piece of my work, I think that’s a good sign.

So, I believe trusting strangers is a good thing when it comes to this.

Kayla: They have no obligation to tell you one thing or another.

GOLDY: Right. You have no obligation at all.

They could just totally shit on it, and that's good.

So yeah, I think trusting strangers is a good thing.

Kayla: What's your biggest fear? 

GOLDY: This year, honestly, I just don't want to feel like it stinks.

I think the career path we want to pursue is

super busy and takes a lot of time.

I’m not afraid of spending time on that,

but I am afraid of losing time with family and friends.

I’m moving out to LA, and my grandparents and parents

aren’t getting any younger, you know? It’s tough.

My brother will be out in Los Angeles when I move,

which I’m really happy about.

I’d say my biggest fear is what could happen to the people I care about.

I have really bad anxiety, so I tend to think about

things all the time that probably won’t happen.

But yeah, there are definitely a lot of fears for sure.

Kayla: Is there anything that you use to grapple with [anxiety]?

GOLDY: Honestly, I think music is a big one.

Kayla: Yeah.

GOLDY: I remember in my junior year of high school

when I started actually writing and putting lyrics together.

I had tried to make beats during my freshman and sophomore years,

but it just wasn’t happening.

But my junior year was really the turning point for me.

I was going through a lot, and making music was like,

“Oh shit this is fun! This is great!”

It made me feel positive about creating something,

even if the topics I was writing about weren’t positive.

It’s kind of weird how that works,

but I think taking some of the good with the bad really helps.

It definitely helped me a lot, yeah.

Kayla: And you mentioned that your brother's out in LA?

GOLDY: Yeah, he's two years younger than me,

but he's playing baseball at UCLA, so he's out there doing his thing.

And Yeah, it’ll be good to be out there cause I haven't seen him

a lot for the last two years, he's been out there and he's going

to be away this summer. So it'll be nice to be reconnected in a way

and see him most days and stuff. I'll be happy about that.

Kayla: Is he an artist as well?

GOLDY: He definitely is.

I mean, he’s not really pursuing it,

but his drawing skills are really good.

He has a very creative mind, especially when it comes to film—

I think he’d be a great filmmaker. He’s also really smart;

he’s majoring in math and economics, and he’s really good at baseball too.

So he’s kind of preoccupied with a lot of things but

I wouldn't be surprised if down the line he wanted

to pursue something that was more artistic

because I think he's got the mind for it.

Kayla: Was it a bit competitive growing up?

GOLDY: Yeah, oh, for sure, for sure.

I’d say I definitely made him better, for sure.

Yeah. He’s technically 22 months younger, so not quite two years.

We’ve always been pretty similar. I mean, I was the older brother,

but I hit puberty really late, so we were always pretty similar size-wise.

And even now he's like he's taller than me, but he's 6’2 6’3.

He's probably got like 20 lbs on me because he's just been working out.

But yeah, no, it's definitely competitive. It still is.

Like, if we’re playing against each other in life,

there’s never any form of jealousy.

If we’re going up against each other one-on-one, you know,

playing pickup basketball or something, it can get competitive.

But if he’s succeeding, I’m over the moon!

I mean, there’s nothing else that would upset me about seeing him do well,

which I’m really happy about.

I know that might be an issue for some people with siblings, but it’s not for us.

Kayla: Do you think your family would ever move out to LA,

seeing as you know you both are there?

GOLDY: I don’t know. I really don’t know.

Honestly, I’m not sure if they want to.

I was actually just talking about this with my mom

because her best friend lives out there, and she introduced my mom and dad,

so she’s kind of the reason I exist, which is cool.

But it would be hard because all our family is here in Illinois.

I don’t know if they could move away since it’s our childhood home.

We’ve never moved, so it would be tough.

I don’t think it would happen in the next two years.

I think they’ll stay here. I don’t know; I just don’t think they really want to, yeah.

Kayla: That's wild that you still have the same house.

Is your room still the same? 

GOLDY: It's changed, but it's the same room.

I used to have a Thomas The Train bed and he's gone now.

Kayla: No. 

GOLDY: That shouldn’t have gone but, but yeah, no, but it's mostly the same.

Kayla: Do you go back home a lot?

GOLDY: Yeah, I do. I go back to the suburbs a lot.

I think it’s a nice privilege to have the ability to see my family,

especially in college. I don’t know if it’s bad for me or good because

it definitely helps me reset sometimes when we go home.

I don’t really get homesick, but it’s my family’s home,

you know? I like to see my family. It might be kind of weird in LA,

but I’m glad my brother will be there too.

So, yeah, I definitely go home a decent amount.

Kayla: Do you notice your hometown changing or is it more you changing?

GOLDY: Hmm. Probably both. It’s just weird, like, friends’

little brothers who were babies are now fully on their

way to college and even graduated. That’s so strange! I mean,

it’s just weird to see people growing up and stuff.

Even for us, like, four years just flew by.

And especially being away from home, you don’t get to see

all the changes happening. It feels so weird when you go back.

For me, I was going back regularly, and it still felt strange and different.

But no, it’s so good—it’s cool! But yeah, it’s just weird,

like my friend’s little cousin is graduating.

It’s strange because, in my eyes, he’s always just been a 10-year-old,

you know? It’s just weird like that.

You don’t really notice the small changes;

you just look back and they’re totally different.

Kayla: Yeah, it'll just like it'll just kind of hit you all of a sudden.

GOLDY: Even my cousins who are like 10 years old

in my eyes are like getting done with high school.

It's so strange.

Kayla: Yeah. 

GOLDY: Yeah.

“I kind of hate hating.”

Kayla: I'm going to mood shift real quick. What's something you hate? 

GOLDY: Ohh. Ohh man. I don't know dude…

Kayla: Yeah, take your time.

GOLDY: Oh, honestly, this might sound stupid,

but I kind of hate hating. There are definitely things

I don’t like that hurt me or bother me, but in some ways,

I’m just not a huge fan of hating on or venting about stuff.

If I’m in a bad mood, that’s when I might do it,

but I feel like that’s more of a reflection of me trying to take

my anger out on something. I don’t think I need to be hateful toward

people or their work because it’s only going to bring me down too.

Kayla: Spread that, yeah. 

GOLDY: You know, like Star Wars—

I just really follow Star Wars.

They say it best:

“Fear leads to anger;

anger leads to hate;

hate leads to suffering.”

I mess with Star Wars a lot.

Kayla: Is that a recent thing? Or is It a nostalgic thing?

GOLDY: Yeah, more nostalgic for sure.

It was just a huge part of my childhood,

and I think a lot of people’s childhoods, definitely.

Especially for our age, with the newer ones that came out right when we were born.

Umm, yeah, it’s just—yeah.

Kayla: I’m going to jump back to something we said in the very beginning.

You were talking about your music playing in the background,

and if people don’t notice it, that’s like your ideal.

GOLDY: Yeah.

Kayla: So how do you envision people listening to your music?

Is that your number one thing? Do you want them to be singing or dancing?

Like, what do you want?

GOLDY: Like if I'm not there?

Kayla: Yeah.

GOLDY: I think it’s cool if it’s like—

like, I guess the most ideal situation would be

just people being able to feel it without overthinking it.

Just like a feeler, nodding along or enjoying it. But I can’t really tell that,

you know? I mean, if people are just having a good time with it and appreciating it,

that’s great. That’s not how it’s going to be for every person, which is fine.

I think the most ideal scenario is people putting it on because they

think it’s cool or because it boosts their mood or something like that.

I don’t know. For me, when I listen to music,

I like to listen to it because it feels good.

It’s something you can’t really explain.

I can’t explain it, but yeah, it’s strange.

Kayla: Yeah, I think that's what's cool about music.

It's like you can't explain it.

It's just your feeling, yeah. 

GOLDY: It’s so weird, but I think that would be the most ideal scenario—

people putting it on just because they like it.

I think that’s so surreal, but it’s really cool.

It’s just really cool.

Kayla: Do you think you make music for people In groups or for them to listen alone? 

GOLDY: Honestly, I think it’s cool if it’s both.

It’s really cool that you can play it without actively listening,

and people can just enjoy the instrumental or the music itself and really feel that.

But I also think it’s awesome if people can zone in on just the lyrics

and listen to that on a personal level.

I think that’s super sick because there are a lot of artists like that—

like Tyler and Kendrick, for sure.

They have music where the instrumental makes people want to dance or is super upbeat,

but if you listen to what they’re saying, it’s like,

“Oh man, this is really good!” I think it’s awesome if you can check both of those boxes—

where it appeals to both a group and the individual.

Kayla: What are you most proud of?

GOLDY: I think just keeping on with it is important.

I’ve thought about this sometimes because there was a point

in high school where I felt like really no one supported it at all.

I was also too shy to show it to certain people, like my parents, family,

or close friends. It was more just for me, you know? It helped me get through stuff.

I’m glad I kept doing it because I remember when nobody was really paying attention.

It’s not like people should have been, you know? It’s not that the music was that good.

But I’m really glad I stuck with it and just kept going, even when it felt

like nobody was really listening.

Kayla: And do you really think people didn’t support you,

or do you think it was more about your own perception?

GOLDY: I think I was probably just too shy about it.

People did comment on it and said it was good, but even looking back,

I’d probably find some of the older stuff from high school a bit cringy.

It wasn’t bad, though. I wouldn’t say it was terrible, you know?

I think there was definitely support; there had to be,

otherwise I would have felt completely alone.

There wasn’t any hate; it wasn’t like people were clowning on it.

I really don’t know sometimes.

I guess I just wanted to keep doing it,

and it became more for me than for others.

But that turned into other people liking it, too,

because once you do something over and over,

you’re bound to get a little better.

Kayla: What would you say are your highs and lows of this year? 

GOLDY: Of this year? Hmm.

We’re halfway through the year, and it’s just crazy.

Honestly, my low every year is New Year’s. I hate New Year’s.

It stinks because it’s such a fun holiday, but it makes me feel so sad because,

for me, it’s like you don’t know what’s going to happen in the next year.

I get really anxious about it. So, yeah, New Year’s

is a pretty low point for me.

I can’t think of anything else, I guess.

Kayla: Why do you think you get sad instead of excited? 

GOLDY: I think there’s been disappointment before,

but it’s not really about the music.

I guess it’s more about personal stuff—like family, friends,

and relationships. Things happen to people all the time, and with a new year,

you never know what could happen. That’s more what goes through my head.

I think I do get pretty excited sometimes, but I try not to focus too much on it.

The same goes for sadness; I kind of just take it in my own way.

But what was the question right before that? Oh, right—Highs.

Kayla: And what are the highs? Yeah. 

GOLDY: Highs probably. At the end of June, like truly right now, life is pretty safe.

Kayla: You're graduating, right?

GOLDY: Yeah, it's pretty awesome. It's pretty awesome to be done.

Kayla: So you're feeling pretty optimistic. That's good. When's the move? 

GOLDY: Probably January.

Kayla: Have you been to California? What's your impression of it?

GOLDY: I like it. I know people really hate on it,

but I just don’t see the need to do that with any place.

I think you can find cool stuff everywhere, and there’s a lot of cool

things in LA and California. I can understand some criticisms because I

was there last summer for six weeks, and the weather is the same every day,

which is awesome. But it can also feel a bit like you’re trapped, you know?

I don’t know how to describe it, but having change is nice.

Chicago has a lot of that, yeah.

Honestly, though, that’s a small part of it.

I know people say LA is fake, which might be true to some extent,

but that’s everywhere. I’m not going to shit on a place because of some bad experiences,

because I feel like there are a lot of good experiences you can have too.

“I feel like just being really yourself is the best thing to do.

You can’t control what other people do…”

Kayla: How do you tell if someone's real?

GOLDY: Real? Hmm. I have no idea.

I think it depends on how you’re acting.

If you feel like you’re faking something,

then the person you’re talking to might pick up on that.

I feel like just being really yourself is the best thing to do.

You can’t control what other people do, but yeah,

I don’t know if you can really tell if someone is real or not.

That’s not really our problem, you know?

You can only control what you can control, I guess.

Kayla: Yeah absolutely, another mood shift but

what is something that you're still working on? 

GOLDY: I think just being more comfortable is key.

In terms of making music and putting it out there,

that’s not an issue for me because I don’t have to face people.

But performing and engaging with people is something

I definitely want to work on.

It’s hard because I feel like I’m still a bit introverted—

especially in high school, I was very shy. I’m definitely better now,

but I’m just trying to keep working on it.

Sometimes, I feel really awkward in social situations.

I try to tell myself that I have to do it;

there’s no way around it if I want to pursue this.

You kind of have to get over those things.

So, I’m just doing stuff to break out of my comfort zone a little bit, I guess.

It’s still hard sometimes, but that’s definitely something I’m feeling.

Kayla: I know this is kind of a low point,

but just with DePaul fest getting canceled,

did you feel Upset about that?

Did you feel relief in some ways because of that introversion?

GOLDY: Honestly, in terms of performing, I love it.

It’s a good point, though, because I think there was a

sense of not really relief, but more like a weight lifted.

It was a very stressful week with a lot of work,

so it felt good to clear that out. But I was also like,

“Damn, bro, that sucks.” I definitely get more excited about performing now.

I don’t really feel as much introversion from it anymore,

just because I’ve done it a couple of times, which is really what you need.

You have to keep doing it.

I was excited for the performance because it would have been cool,

but I think things work out the way they’re supposed to,

and it’ll be alright. In some ways, I still feel introverted

and relieved about stuff, like conversations or meeting people and networking.

That’s something I really need to get better at—

not being afraid to put myself out there as an artist or

someone who makes music and promotes that,

especially in person rather than online.

Yeah, I don’t know.

I think it’s really better than I realize.

When our performance got canceled, I was working with JC at the time.

We were both disappointed, but we weren’t devastated.

We kind of guessed something might happen.

Kayla: Mm-hmm. 

GOLDY: But yeah, I mean, we're still, we still want to,

you know, keep making stuff and keep doing stuff so.

It's all good. It's all good. Yeah.

Kayla: Yeah,

it's interesting cause with performing.

Everything can be rehearsed, but when you're having a conversation,

you can't anticipate a lot. 

GOLDY: Right. I know. Yeah, that’s true.

Another thing I want to get better at is crowd work

and performing because that’s super tough too. But we’ll see.

I just gotta keep doing it. I guess that’s really how you learn.

Kayla: When you’re singing, do you choose a specific

audience member to look at, or do you look out

to see if people are engaged?

GOLDY: Yeah, if my girlfriend's there. I Look at my girlfriend.

“I’m just taking inspiration from really good artists

and trying to make my own thing.”

Kayla: Hmm. 

GOLDY: I feel like they call me down in a way.

Kayla: Hmm. 

GOLDY: But truly, if my friends are there, it helps to see them.

Even seeing strangers having a good time is pretty cool.

I haven’t really seen many strangers at my shows; most of the time,

it’s just people I know. But yeah, I think that’s kind of fun.

Kayla: Yeah, that could be a dynamic that shifts more

and more toward strangers. But we trust strangers,

so here we go!

GOLDY: Right. Yeah.

Kayla: Uhm. What do you think is going to be big soon?

GOLDY: Hmm. I think, with music specifically,

people are starting to see that—well, I don’t really know for sure—

but I just feel like music that’s more nostalgic is coming back.

In the early 2010s, people were kind of obsessed with the '90s,

and throughout the 2010s, there was a big focus on that style of music.

It was so cool. Now, it feels like we’re shifting into the 2000s,

and people are reminiscing about artists from that time,

like Pharrell and the Neptunes.

Kayla: Yeah.

GOLDY: I think people are really obsessed with that

style of music right now, and it’s cool.

It’s fun and interesting.

I feel like it will just keep repeating and evolving over time

kind of based on the childhoods of the artists.

Kayla: Do you think your music fits into a genre or is it its own thing?

GOLDY: I think it’s definitely just, you know, rap music.

I love rap music, and I also love jazz.

I enjoy being able to blend those genres, which a lot of

people have been doing for like 40 years or so.

Jazz is a great genre to sample.

It’s like A Tribe Called Quest—

they really pioneered that jazz-rap fusion.

But there have been a lot of artists who mix genres together,

and I really like rock and rap, as well as jazz and rap.

I think they’re all great blends, and people have done it a ton.

I don’t think anything I’m doing is really new;

I’m just taking inspiration from really good artists

and trying to make my own thing. It’s just fun.

Kayla: And throughout our conversation,

we've touched on doubts, anxiety, and fear.

But we've also discussed how you've kept going despite it all.

So, what do you think is your largest motivator to keep pushing forward?

GOLDY: Um, truly, I think it’s my younger self that motivates me.

That self really wanted to do this out of respect,

just because it helped them, and they wanted others to

realize that it could help them too.

I think that’s probably why I keep doing it.

It’s just fun; it really is so much fun, you know?

There are probably a lot of hidden reasons I could come up

with for why I keep pushing through.

I think about the people in high school who may not have been supportive.

Some people said things to my face,

while others probably talked behind my back,

maybe dissing it a little. That’s fine; it happens,

especially if it wasn’t that good, which I understand.

I always had this weird drive to prove people wrong.

I remember when it came to film, for example,

people would say something small that wouldn’t even be important,

but hearing that would stick with me. It made me feel like

I had to do something to change their minds.

It’s interesting, though, because I don’t even think their criticisms were true.

I think people were probably chill about it, but I don't know.

I feel like I’m working through this in a convoluted way, but yeah, that’s how I see it.

Kayla: Oh my gosh, you're so good.

GOLDY: Just one, because it's fun.

And two, I want to keep doing it for the younger

version of me that just wanted to share it with others,

you know? I guess I want other people to enjoy it too.

Kayla: Yeah. I think you're hard on yourself.

I think you're incredibly well spoken.

I don't think you need to be nervous about anything. 

GOLDY: Thanks, that means a lot.

Kayla: Well, those were all my questions I think.

Is there anything you wish you would have said?

GOLDY: Sweet. I don’t think so! 

Kayla: Thanks Goldy!

View the Entire Shoot Below.

Full Gallery.

Zoe Gray Mazza

In Conversation With Kayla Holliday

“the sound of wind going through wheat.

If I was a sound... I’d want to be that.”

Kayla: We'll start out simple. I'd love to hear a little bit more

about your music taste. We were talking a little about some classical

music, but what do you listen to on a typical day?

ZOE:I really like Amy Winehouse, Etta James, Remi Wolf.

I think I like things with a little bit of funk.

And I just recently started being able to listen to slower,

sad music, because it used to make me too sad.

Kayla: Typically, more women artists it seems like?

ZOE: Yeah. I don't listen to a lot of male artists.

I don't think I listen to… any. (laughs)

Kayla: Do you know why? Psychoanalyze yourself for a minute there.

ZOE: I feel like I just didn't grow up listening

to a lot of male artists. My mom and my

dad just didn't end up doing that.

I don't know why.

Kayla: Do you think that you found a lot of your music taste through your family?

ZOE: Yeah they have good music taste, especially…

my little brother, is so musical.

He was going to school for the trumpet for performance.

If there's a good song on, it'll be him on aux. Like, he's so good.

“he went out and gambled their house away”

Kayla: Do you know how you got your name?

ZOE: Yeah. So Zoe means life in Greek. 

And when I was born, I wasn't breathing.

As a newborn, they had to give me CPR for 7 minutes,

and they didn't think I was going to make it.

And then I breathed…and I started crying.

And they held up me and the nurse said to my dad, what's her name?

And he just blurted out ZOE!

My dad's not even Greek, but that was the name they were thinking of.

So they went with Zoe because I was alive.

And then Zoe Gray… my Great Grandma Watkins, that was her middle name.

And she smoked a lot.

She was really tiny and she was an oil painter and she was also an accountant.

So she was like, super wicked smart.

And also could paint, which is, I feel like, not common.

So that's how I got my name.

Kayla: That's beautiful.

ZOE: My mom tells me this story about how my great grandpa,

was a gambling addict and one time

he went out and he gambled their house away

and he came back and my great grandma was there.

And she said,

“If you ever want to see me again,

you have to turn around and go get our house back.”

“I feel like throughout school, I fell out of love with [acting].

I stopped seeing it as a way to connect with other people.”

Kayla: Oh, so she said, “Go back to the casino!”

ZOE: Yeah And he turned around and he got the house back.

Kayla: Through gambling?

ZOE: Through gambling.

Kayla: Wow. And Zoe Gray… Is that two first names?

ZOE: It's a middle name I go by. It reminds me of her,

and I never got to meet her, but I, I, I love her,

so I think I like that - Zoe Gray.

Kayla: I'm going to ask a challenging question, depending on the person.

I've asked it to a few other people and sometimes they struggle

and sometimes, they have an answer.

So I think it might tell us a little bit about the way that you view yourself.

If you had to describe yourself, but you couldn't use anything about

what you do or what you like or anything exterior like that,

how would you describe yourself?

ZOE: I feel like I have core values that I try to live by.

Of being genuine, being honest and being kind.

And I try to be those things.

I try and sometimes I'm not, but I try.

Can I get obscure with it? Is that okay?

Kayla: Hell, yeah.

ZOE: I feel like I'm… my laugh. I have a very loud cackle.

Do you know the sound of wind going through wheat?

I grew up hearing that. If I was a sound, maybe I'd be that.

I’d want to be that. Yeah.

Kayla: What is something that you're currently proud of yourself for?

ZOE: I'm really proud of myself for graduating college.

It was hard through the pandemic.

I mean, it was so difficult and isolating.

I actually at one point had in my emails, drafted, a leave of absence

and I was going to send it. And I didn't I, I kept it in my drafts.

Kayla: What do you think kept you from sending that email?

ZOE: Honestly, like one of the therapists I was seeing

at the time really sat me down and we talked about it

and they were like, “Just, just try” and if you don't like it,

you can get out. And so yeah, I did it, and I just took it

so slow and I was just really focused on myself.

I was like, I can't think about anything else. Anyone else. Yeah.

Kayla: Survival. 

ZOE: Yeah.

I do think conservatory style training is meant to push you.

I mean, it's all that you do. And so it was, it was hard.

Kayla: Do you think you ever fell out of love with acting or has that-

ZOE: -Oh my God, yeah.

Oh my GOD. Yeah.

I feel like throughout school, I fell out of love with it.

I stopped seeing it as a way to connect with other people.

And I started seeing it as like, okay, what's going on with me?

Am I good? Am I good enough? Do you want me? Do you want me?

I was finding no joy and it made me miserable. And I, I just hated it.

I wanted to like it so bad.

And then I just didn't act for a while after I graduated.

And then I got this email, which is from [Diana Soukup], which is cool.

And I think Provenance is the way I reentered.

Kayla: That's so sweet. Yeah, because acting is one of the

only art forms where you are the product.

So you're judging yourself when you're judging your art,

rather than it being this third thing.

ZOE: Yeah. And it's, and it's hard because you can feel a

certain way internally, but also how you feel isn't the product.

It's what people are seeing. I can feel like my face is moving

a certain way or feel like I'm looking upset, but then an

audience could read it a completely different way.

So it felt really technical. And sometimes you need technique

and sometimes I felt like it was really getting in my way.

Kayla: Yeah. Do you have a favorite acting theory that you follow?

ZOE: I think it varies by project. I don't have a theory that I follow.

I think it really varies by project and the character that I'm playing.

Like what I need to get prepped for that. What is something that

the character would do, and I just do that.

That sounds method but it’s not.

Like with Rose I was just sketching all the time.

I filled up a full notebook. And if that's a part of her everyday life,

I should get-

How does it feel to see everything like it’s something I could make?

Kayla: What would you say is the thing about [Rose] that you are most like, personally?

ZOE: I think she's really quietly competitive.

And I think I am, too, even if it's competing against myself.

She's really internal and I don't think I'm as internal as her,

but I do think that sometimes I just get lost in my thoughts.

Kayla: What about differences?

ZOE: I'm trying to think of how to put this into words.

I think I learned through the things I've been through in life-

I feel like I'm comfortable enough to let people know

what's going on, to be vulnerable.

“I felt when I read [Provenance] that someone took some of my secrets and wrote them out.”

And I just, I imagine, what difference would that make

if Rose had somebody where she felt like she could be 100% honest?

Because even with Kara in the movie, she's hinting at like this huge,

boulder that's like sitting on her chest of, like I'm,

I don't think I can do it.

And she's just hinting at it and she's not able to be open.

And I feel like I've been lucky enough to have people

in my life who support me, who want to know me 120%.

And I feel like Rose, unfortunately, just isn't in that circumstance.

So I feel like I have the privilege of being open, while she doesn't. Or didn't.

Kayla: Now, is there anything you learned about yourself when you were playing her?

ZOE: Yeah. I feel like Rose was just a version of myself sometimes.

I feel like she was living out of spite. And then at the end of the day,

it's like, What are you left with?

And so to do things out of joy rather than to do it out of like,

Fuck it, watch me. And I feel even sometimes I get caught in the

trap of being like, I don't give a fuck. Like, fuck you.

Kayla: Trying to prove yourself.

ZOE: Yeah, that's the words I'm looking for.

Kayla: Do you think that acting for you is cathartic

when you're going through something, or do you think that

it can be harmful, because you're being forced to feel all

these strong emotions?

ZOE: I think it depends. I think it depends on the project.

I try to be like, okay, here's my life, put it out the door

and then let's work on it.

But sometimes it sneaks in and you don't realize it.

I think it's healthy? I don't know. I have no idea.

Kayla: Do you think you're a better actor when you're

going through something or when you're peachy, feeling great?

ZOE: I think maybe when I'm going through something.

Usually when I am going through something, if I have something

else I can dive fully into and commit 110%, that helps me

because I have an outlet for energy.

And during Provenance, that was really, really helpful.

Kayla: Why provenance? Why did you sign on for the project?

And what grabbed your attention about it? 

ZOE: I felt when I read it that someone

took some of my secrets and wrote them out.

Like, it is so specific and I have had moments-

I painted and drew all my life, and I've had moments

where I've had a meltdown and have destroyed my works.

My mom, who's an artist, has destroyed her works.

It's such a specific thing.

And then also to show that and just everything,

it just feels like the secret side of being an artist

that I felt so protective over.

Rose, specifically, because I've been there so many times.

And I, I felt like when I got the full script for the callback,

I was like, “Nobody knows her better than I know her.”

Like, I know her so well. Like, give it to me, please.

And just how internal she was. Yeah. And I just, I love specificity.

It's such a big story, but the character’s so niche,

and I thought I could do a lot with it.

“I feel like Rose was just a version of myself sometimes.

I feel like she was living out of spite. And then at the end of the day,

it's like, What are you left with?”

Kayla: And do you think that you did?

ZOE: I think so. Maybe. I really hope so. I really hope so.

I feel like I made a big choice to make her so internal that

when we finished filming, I was like, “I feel good. I feel good.”

And then like a month or two passed and I was like,

“Oh my God, do I not give anything in this movie?”

Like, are my movements,

everything I give so internal,

so small that I give nothing?

Kayla: And that's kind of what we were talking about.

When you're feeling it inside, does the audience also?

ZOE: That's the big thing. I had to trust my gut

and I had to put so much trust in Max.

Max did such a good job making me feel comfortable

and I felt like he would be so honest with me,

that I was like, “Okay, I'm trusting you.

This is how internal I think she is. Take it or leave it.”

And I feel like she's painfully shy in some ways.

And I just want to show that. But a shy person can have

so much stuff going on. And so hopefully it reads.

Kayla: Is there anything you want to add before wrapping up?

ZOE: I really do love you guys. I feel like growing up-

I felt like I was the one kid who was kind of like,

“You guys, let's make a movie. Come on.”

And all my friends would kind of outgrow it.

I felt like I was that one kid who was obsessed with it.

And then I feel like with Provenance, every single person

who was on that set and putting so many hours in-

They were the kid who was obsessed with movies when they were younger.

And so to be surrounded by people who are like,

“This is my livelihood. This is what makes me want to get up.”

It's just so incredibly special.

And I look at you, I look at Enzo, I look at Max, I look at Louis.

I look at everybody who worked on it, and I'm just so thankful that

I got to be a part of something where people cared so much.

Yeah, Yeah, that's it.

Kayla: Period.

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